No Evidence for a God = No God
Just because you have a fantasy book which talks about an invisible magical being with super powers doesn’t make it true. In order for anyone to assert that their deity exists they must provide Evidence for this.
If you really want to get down to where the Abrahamic religions come from those stories and Gods & Goddesses originate with ancient Sumer. The Sumerians. The Sumerians called their Gods The Anunnaki. Which simply meant those who from Heaven to earth came. These are what we would call Aliens.
There is a mountain of evidence to support the ancient Alien theory and I can cover this in future blogs if need be. I want to stress even though I freely admit the evidence points to the ancient Gods & Goddesses being Aliens I can still say with conviction there is No God!
The reason for this is simple. An Alien race regardless of how evolved they are simply aren’t a God! They may have technology which would blow our mind. But technology doesn’t make you a magical being / a God!
We have technology that people thousands of years ago wouldn’t have been able to grasp. But we are not Gods! We are not all powerful. Neither are Aliens!
Additionally I wouldn’t worship an Alien period.
I would love to talk to them crawl in their head / Find out what makes them tick. But Bowing and Scraping is simply not for me.
However None of the Theists want to admit their so-called God is an Alien race. They don’t want to look at the evidence because then they may have to face the reality that No Being made the Universe!
Quantum Physics does go a long way to explaining how the Universe came into existence. While String Theory does open the door for upwards of ten – twelve dimensions. However None of this gives even the slightest hint to any kind of God thing!
Without Evidence proving a God exists the only logical conclusion is none exist. Invisible Magical Spiritual Flying Blue Smurfs are not real simply because someone may say they are and there is no evidence they don’t exist. There is no evidence they do exist! You do not just assume a fantasy character exists until it can be proven they don’t. This is backwards!
Hell the Quran screws up in basic science as I will show in an up coming blog. I will give the Book, Chapter & Verse in all of the places where I show the Quran Screwing up!
Posted on January 17, 2012, in Religion and tagged Aliens, Atheism, Christianity, Dimensions, Evidence, God, Logic, Proof, Quantum Physics, Reason, String Theory. Bookmark the permalink. 13 Comments.
mrgoodnkinky 
Just to push the thought process a little… where did the Aliens come from? And did enough things happen at exactly the right time in exactly the right way on their own to lead to the formation of the human body (or the aliens’ bodies) and the mind (or the aliens’ minds) and all the capability therein? I don’t think there’s any physical proof as to a character of God, or which religion is right, if any. I believe that comes down to faith. But a first mover? That’s a different story. I heard once, “If you come across a watch on a tree stump, there are 2 ways it could have gotten there. Either all the watch parts fell out of the sky at exactly the right time to create a watch, or there was a watchmaker. Even if you can prove that the pieces did fall out of the sky, how did they come to exist in the sky?” If everything is cause and effect, eventually there has to be an un-caused cause- that’s Aristotle for beginners. The scientists that devote their lives to this stuff often end up concurring with the idea of a first mover, whatever it was.
connieann,
The question of if Aliens where did they come from is not a new one and really keeps the focus on the physical Universe that we exist in. However based on Sting Theory & M Theory there is a high degree of probability that there exist at least 10 Dimensions.
As far as Alien life the most logical conclusion would be that life evolved on a different world. The idea that we are the first or the top is simply human arrogance. Given the evidence of Aliens in the ancient world the idea that we are the best or only is simply false. However all of this is still only looking at things from the physical existence only.
In order to understand where things come from one must look at Quantum Physics. On the Quantum level particles are blinking in and out of our known existence all the time. What causes this is largely unknown at this point. However the idea of a Consciousness existing on a higher dimension is very probable and that consciousness would logically be so far beyond anything we would call a life form as to now concern itself with the thoughts we have about it.
The idea that a “God” would exist and take a personal interest in human lives and human ideas is arrogance to the extreme.
One could just as easily say that the lack of evidence proving that God doesn’t exist means that God exists. This is because your argument, at a very basic level, is untenable.
Evidence proves nothing. Evidence only indicates possibilities. Proof is quite different and is, to sum extent, subjective – and there is neither proof of God’s existence or non-existence since no branch of science can currently answer how the “universe” came into being. Universe being quoted because all String theory and ‘Brane theory do is push back the question of creation to before our particular universe existed.
Essentially, you just may have to accept the reality that some God did make the universe – or all of the universes, if you prefer.
SIDE NOTE: I’m normally pretty nasty with the Godless but I’m trying not to be with you because you’re one of the few who doesn’t seem to be instead anti-Christian; you actually go after Muslims too, which is in my experience almost unheard of among those claiming to be Atheists or Anti-Theists.
jonolan,
You are quite incorrect when you say, “Evidence only indicates possibilities.” When there is evidence of something it doesn’t mean that the thing is possible but that it is true. Providing of course the evidence is not flawed. To give an example of this take someone on trial for murder or rape. DNA Evidence doesn’t mean that it is Possible they did the crime but rather it is hard evidence that they did it.
Evidence is how something is proved or disproved. When there is no evidence to prove that you committed a crime it would be tyrannical to say well you can’t prove you didn’t do something so you are guilty of it. Take the accusations of being in league with Satan / being a Witch. These were used for hundreds of years to torture & or kill people just on accusations. It would be impossible to prove or disprove such a statement when it is coming from a closed minded fundamentalist since they already made up their mind about the statement regardless of the complete lack of any evidence.
What we call reality is based on the evidence not on stupid stories / fables made up by ignorant people. Additionally Quantum Physics, String Theory & M Theory are getting us closer and closer to understanding how the Universe came into being.
While it is impossible to prove or disprove a Consciousness behind the Universe. This is Not a Theistic deity. In order for Theism of any sort to be true they must not only show that some magical being exists but also that it takes a personal interest in their life and their concerns. Which frankly is showing extreme arrogance to presume that something behind the Universe would give a fuck about you or your little issues in life.
Not to mention the fact that in all of human history there is not one case of a magical being doing a single thing to help anyone or stop any disaster or evil act. The fact that you openly admit, “I’m normally pretty nasty with the Godless” is very telling about your character. You base how you treat others on if they Think as you demand or not. That is rather NWO / 1984 of you.
It is also extremely inconsistent to engage in such behavior if you also wish to claim to be operating out of a Loving Spirit / Nature. You do not show that you are loving by acting in an unloving manner. You do not show you are better then another by acting worse then them or Attacking them simply because they happen to Think differently.
However for Theists (Christian’s & Muslim’s) the only sales pitch they got is one based on Fear! Fear = False Evidence Appearing Real! If Fear and threats of violence is all you have to try and get someone to listen to your ideas then your ideas are as worthless as your fantasy God!
Hi,
Let me ask you a simple question (well OK I’ll ask 2 questions with sub-texts)…
1. Before “gravity” existed and was “proven” by evidence, did it exist?
I believe it always existed but our knowledge of it increased as our own understanding and wisdom increased. Even today we aren’t certain if it is constant or variable, or if it is caused by graviton or by a warp in the space-time continuum. Since there is debate over its exact nature should we as rational scientific types throw gravity out because we can’t agree on its nature? Should we throw out “God” because we don’t understand it fully?
2. Quantum mechanics points to the creation of the universe by a consciousness that is beyond any being we could imagine – I totally agree with you from antoher of your posts. Since this “thing” is beyond anything we could imagine what evidence would be possible to “prove” its existence?
If circumstantial evidence is acceptable for science (just look at evidence for the big bang theory) then why is it not acceptable for the anti-theistic community? If this “thing” was shown by science to work in exactly the same way that “God” is said to work then would this be proof of God or proof that God can’t exist because we could rationally explain it? Same evidence but different conclusions based on beliefs.
thirdobservation
Hi,
Good questions but there are actually 3 questions in there not 2 LOL.
1. Before “gravity” existed and was “proven” by evidence, did it exist?
Of Course Gravity existed before we knew or of or proved it to exist. To think otherwise is to make the existence of something dependant upon us knowing about it and defining it. This is simply human arrogance.
No we don’t toss out the Theory of gravity just because there are parts we do not understand.
Even though Gravity is called a “Theory” in science this doesn’t mean the word Theory has the same meaning as it does in the non scientific world / secular world. This comes back to Theists not really understanding the Scientific Method in the first place. A Theory in Science is the same as a Fact in the Secular world. This is because of how many tests are done on a hypothesis in order to get it to being elevated to a Theory. Science doesn’t phrase things in absolutes because they leave the door open for New Evidence. Religion doesn’t do this but closes off all possibilities and uses the “God wins by Default” for anything they do not understand. This doesn’t promote investigation or thought but closed mindedness and ignorance.
2. Since this “thing” is beyond anything we could imagine what evidence would be possible to “prove” its existence?
Quantum Physics & M Theory are going a long way in getting us to that end. It may be forever just outside of the grasp of what Science can definitely prove and this is fine. However there is a hypothesis in Quantum Physics that Consciousness changes the effects of the endless Possibilities that exist on the Quantum Level. This idea of Consciousness is something that can’t be proved or disproved in the Cosmic scheme of things.
However for a person to depend entirely on what is accepted at the Pulpit of Science is no different then someone that only accepts what comes from the Pulpit of their Church.
This is why while I accept the man made label of Atheist / Anti Theist there are aspects of what I suspect / believe that do differ greatly from others that accept those labels.
3. The Third question was kinda mixed in with the first and second and that dealt with a Theistic God. I understand you don’t use the term Theistic but that is what this really comes down to. The idea of a God that sits in judgment over humans and engages in threats of endless violence if one doesn’t “Think” the right thoughts. This type of God is at best an Alien race that primitive people called a God because they were so far advanced as to be able to do things those primitive people regarded as magical.
However this is vastly different from the Deistic / Consciousness behind the Universe God idea. The Consciousness behind the Universe God wouldn’t be one that would seemingly care either way what occurs in the physical Universe as it is so far above it as to make any mundane issue completely irrelevant to it. I do feel there are ways that this consciousness can guide / direct people’s thoughts and actions towards being positive. I also know from my own life that this “Whatever it is” doesn’t force anyone to think or do anything. Rather only gives possibilities / guidance.
While we can’t rule out the Consciousness behind the Universe God (Deism). We can completely rule out a Theistic God. We can do this just based on the complete lack of any evidence and the complete disregard for the Disasters, Suffering & Death that have occurred in our world. If a God would exist and would take a Personal interest in human lives why would it sit back and do nothing while children are molested? Especially by Priests that are to be representatives for this God? Or how could such a being sit back and do nothing while a Million children a year starve to death? The complete Apathy that such a being would have to have regarding human existence and human suffering means if such would exist it would be the purest form of evil that could exist. Then to toss in the fact that the only sales pitch Christianity & Islam has is Believe or be tortured. Makes this God the embodiment of pure evil.
Great answers (to all 3 of them – Don’t judge all theists by my counting abilities!).
You did make a comment before about DNA evidence but it doesn’t “prove” anything. If you were dead with your DNA on my clothes and my DNA on your body it doesn’t prove I killed you, just that we crossed paths at a time most likely during or after your death and it is possible I killed you or I was presnet when someone else did it. That’s why courts rely on “reasonable doubt”. They allow for possibilities and doubt, not “proof”.
I guess it boils down to definitions of theism, deism and atheism (and even anti-theism).
Is there such a thing as an adeist?
By your definitions I seem to fall into the deist category, even though I believe the Bible expertly describes deism to me.
Yes, you raise some excellent points yourself about the contradictions within established religion. This is how I look at it…
How do you describe gravity to a young child? You don’t go straight into quantum mechanics and possibility states and the space-time continuum. No. You start with the simple explanation of the force of attraction between two masses. You explain that it is a constant and the exact acceleration is known to be 9.81m/s/s at sea level on earth and its effects are obvious. You can’t escape it’s clutches and its everywhere.
How do you describe “whatever it is” to the spirtiually immature? You don’t go straight into connundrums of creation and that really “it” doesn’t give a hoot about you and your insignificant issues and by the way this soul you cling to is as real as your body that will die one day because you aren’t you but just part of the whole. “You” and all of the things “you” cling to are just an illusion. But, you are best served by serving the whole (even Jesus didn’t come to be served but to serve – sorry for that blatant plug). No. You start with the simple explanation of a “God” that loves you and will make sure you suffer when you do wrong and “God’s” effects are obvious. You explain that “God” is a constant and you can’t escape its clutches.
I believe the Bible does all of that and its meaning grows as you mature (just as the explanations of science evolves with our understanding). I also believe most holy texts also do all of that or most of that as does the Bhagavad Gita (sorry for spelling) but some go straight to the end game such as the Book of Tao.
Does that make the simple explanation of gravity wrong? No.
Does that make the simple explanation of “God” wrong? No.
Does that make atheists wrong? No.
I like what you’ve written and I agree with a lot of the sentiments about the “truth” and “lies” of religion but that isn’t “God” and certainly isn’t “whatever it is”.
thirdobservation,
LOL, I try not to judge all theists on the group but sometimes when I write something I will refer to the group because the idea is part of the doctrine / so-called holy books. The DNA aspect is one where you seem to be thinking of it as that being the only evidence. That wouldn’t be and given the location of it on the body in combination with the other evidence can make an air tight case against someone. There isn’t only one piece of evidence for anything that will conclusively prove the thing. Despite the Theists attempts to try and do this very thing with the book of fables they call the bible.
This is especially true when one examines the contents of the bible and finds out the creation myth and flood story are actually stolen from an earlier culture. (Sumerian) A Stolen story with the names changed can hardly be called evidence of anything but the original theft.
As for the bible supporting a Deist idea of the God I would ask where does it do this? Clearly for this you would have to seriously Cherry Pick it to make sure as to remove all references to the theistic mindset. Additionally one would have to be ignoring the Hebrew meaning of the word God since the majority of the uses it is Elohim. Which is the Plural form of El. Elohim would be better translated “Gods” This points more to Judaism, Christianity & really Islam being Polytheism not Monotheism. However the Deism idea simply doesn’t fit the “Evidence”
The most disturbing part of what you said is this, “You start with the simple explanation of a “God” that loves you and will make sure you suffer when you do wrong.”
Note: You did not say that this God will correct you or Teach you that what you did was wrong. No you specifically used the words “Will Make Sure You Suffer” This is no Deism at all but Sadistic Theism. What parent treats their child in this manner? That when the child disobeys the parent “Will Make Sure They Suffer”.
Seriously think about what that says about the character of the parent or God in question. This gets at the real heart of theism and that is the message of Fear & Torture which the religion depends on in order to push this God idea. If the only message someone has is one rooted in Threats of violence toward someone that doesn’t think as they demand this is not a good, moral or loving message.
F.E.A.R
False
Evidence
Appearing
Real
That is what Theism depends on. Try talking about this God or Jesus without threatening someone with torture if they do not buy into your ideas. I contend you can’t do it and have the person even consider your message because they would say, “Well what proof or evidence do you have?” In short why do I have to accept this idea?
After all if someone came up to you and told you about the Great Invisible, Magical, Flying Blue Smurf would you simply believe everything they said without asking for evidence to support it? I contend you would not. unless you are off your rocker to begin with.
It is my contention (As Christopher Hitchen’s said) “That not only is there no evidence to support the existence of any “God” but that it is a damn good thing there isn’t. Because who among us would want to live in a Celestial North Korea?”
Theism is not only down right Immoral & Unethical but the root message of it is the absolute embodiment of Pure Evil.
Hi,
You mentioned DNA as proof. I simply said it isn’t proof. Even with other evidence it isn’t “proof” but is merely more corroborating circumstantial evidence increasing the likely probability of a certain outcome. Even a sworn confession is not proof as often these are taken under duress (fear) or the promise of a lighter sentence (bribery of a more plesast after-court life). Funny how life imitates life.
That’s what science relies on and is why the Big Bang theory is still largely accepted even though there is no conclusive “proof”, but there is some contrary evidence (such as the universe expanding at an accelerating speed). So then why if the courts and science do not rely on proof do anti-theists expect “proof” of God or there must be no God? It isn’t logical and isn’t based on anything except supporting a dogma (which is the antithesis of truth).
I agree about the “Gods” part. Even the translations use Gods in parts and Genesis says God speaks about himself as “us” rather than “me”. As for cherry picking – name one person or one interpretation that doesn’t do it? I believe it is intrinsic to the nature of the book and the nature of humanity so it is impossible NOT to cherry pick. I’m not going to go into the deistic intperpretation or more on why “Gods” is acceptable. If you are truly interested in my rationale then you can traverse links to a recent post of mine about why the Bible must be divinely inspired. I won’t link here or expand here because that isn’t fair to your blog.
You are also correct about what I said about making sure you suffer. Fear is a big part of how we bring up children (rightly or wrongly) – don’t cross the road without mummy, stranger danger, don’t run with scissors or you might fall and poke your eye out, don’t – don’t don’t don’t. Fear (rightly or wrongly) has been adopted by religions as a way to keep the people in-line. I liked your post about hell (even though you cherry picked) and I’m with you on that one. It is about humanising “God” which I think is a mistake but that doesn’t stop it from happening.
I wouldn’t believe in the flying blue smurf or even the flying blue spaghetti monster (we all know the red one is a fake) because I look for evidence for what I believe. I guess we are similar excpet for what we consider to be suitable evidence and the conclusions drawn is where we differ. I know you will consider the difference is deeper and I am “delusional” but hey, again I think we are similar. 🙂
thirdobservation,
lol Well my beef with the bible God & Jesus actually goes a lot deeper then the lack of evidence. I have issues with its Narcissistic, Sociopathic, & Psychopathic nature. I don’t Cherry pick anything because when I talk about Hell I do so knowing full well there are 3 different meanings of it. Two are really the same only one is in Hebrew & one is in Greek. Those being Sheol & Hades. Both mean the Grave. The only other was from Jeremiah 32:35 and that referred Specifically to burning children in fire. (Gehenna) This is also what the word Hell in Mark 9 was referring to.
However the real kicker with the Jeremiah account is that Lord God called it An Abomination & a Sin. As well as something that never entered his mind.
My entire beef with this God is a Moral & Ethical one. I can’t be threatened into a belief or into liking anyone. In fact all threats can do is get me to hate someone not love them. Call me nuts but if someone threatens to set me on fire if i don’t think what they say I am not going to be giving them a big sloppy kiss.
I would also contend that for anyone to be able to go along with the sadistic nature of this bible God & Jesus shows they suffer from the religious version of Stockholm Syndrome. As well as Delusional Disorder.
I do understand people want very badly to believe in a cosmic Gene that loves you and keeps a close eye on things. But honestly this is childish. I don’t want a Jesus or any magical being peeping on me when i am having sex with my girlfriend or when i am taking a crap. Especially when I am taking a crap. Holy shit must this peeping Jesus be spying on everything.
But seriously I do know there is something beyond this life but i also know that it is vastly different from how the religions of our world put it. I am going to be doing blogs on ascending to a higher level. Those will get into why I feel this matters.
I am also determined to remain calm & positive when doing things on here. At least this is my hope. lol I am only human.
We may have a lot in common I will check out your posts.
Hi,
Yep, I do think we have a lot in common.
I also believe that far too many people use religion as a crutch and an easy crutch to take up is when someone else tells you from a place of authority (the pulpit) that you are no good and need this crutch. But, I used to enjoy kicking out crutches from underneath people (secretly I still do but don’t tell anyone) but I discovered that all I was really doing was making cripples who couldn’t stand on their own. Funnily enough people use atheism as the same type of crutch and with equal passion. It has a dogma all of its own.
People are led to believe they NEED religion, and that’s the biggest shame of it all.
I actually do agree with a lot of what you say and I’m going to hit the follow button to see what you have to say about higher levels.
Thanks for the calm and positive and rational discussion.
thirdobservation,
The follow button is the only one I know of.
There isn’t a follow one post but not the person. LOL
I understand what you are saying and I have gone rounds with some Atheists / Skeptics already. I do not go for this just because something was labeled “Debunked” or “Conspiracy Theory” that it means I can’t examine the evidence about the subject. This to me is no different then listening to a religion tell you what thoughts you can have about a God or Condoms or anything.
In some ways it is worse because instead of a religion it is a Government that they are bowing to and that scares the shit out of me. That is far to 1984 for my tastes.
OK,
Forgive a newcomer to blogging but where’s the button to follow this blog and get email updates when you post something new?